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MrMac
Joined: 10 Jul 2010 Posts: 8254 Location: Greenwood, SC
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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BDF wrote: |
After listening to that, I feel pretty good about the board’s analysis. I think the only thing coach said that we didn’t was “JAG was penetrating too deep into the crack.†Honestly, I can understand no one wanting to share that knowing that Graveline is part of the community. |
😂 |
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Acorn
Joined: 08 Dec 2005 Posts: 2649
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:48 am Post subject: |
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I must be mellowing in my old age because Friday’s loss didn’t bother me as much or for as long as it would have in the past. Obviously I would prefer for Davidson to have wonâ€"or at least to have played better. But I’ve seen this movie before. The offense stagnates as everyone figures out their roles in it. Players aren’t sure what they should do at certain momentsâ€"in large part because they’re not sure what their teammates are doingâ€"and the resulting hesitation grinds everything to a halt. Kellan, especially, seems to be finding his way. Many times he receives the ball he hesitates just long enough for the defense to recover. It looks like a habit that’s come from playing one on one. He’ll give a little head fake or shoulder shake, but he doesn’t really do anything to attack the defender, who is able to guard him by simply staying put in front of him.
I do worry a bit about the team’s ongoing struggles against long, athletic teams that attack the passing lanes. And I think the minimal outside shooting threat posed by Davidson’s bigs will mean Bob et al. may need to add some new wrinkles to keep defenders from being able to clog the middle of the court, which is important space for Davidson’s cuts and passes.
The good news, I think, is that Davidson hasn’t played well yet (and especially hasn’t scored well). But they’re still winning and they hung around with a top-25 team for 30 minutes (though it never felt as close as the score indicated). As someone said, that wasn’t App State from last year. I have great confidence in KG and JAG. And I think Luke and Luka will figure out how to get theirs. Carter has been a nice surprise to me. |
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mccabemi
Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 5685 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:03 am Post subject: |
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To extend on points above, Kellan has not seemed to have the space to drive to the basket. He's holding the ball in the offense waiting for the proper spacing, and when it doesn't develop either 1) passes the ball a second late disrupting the offensive flow 2) drives to the basket and is forced into a shot that has been altered or the angle of attack made more difficult by the clogged middle. You can see the frustration in his eyes, and toward the end of the game when he hit a 3- he was more vocal about it (which is ultimately good if he can express it in a way that teaches rather than out of frustration). I think a lot of the best opportunities for attacking the basket come out on the wing where the big man has been used to reverse the ball at the top of the key and then down screen for shooters (rather than posting up). Kellan had a nice reverse lay-up in the 1st half utilizing this idea.
Luka tends to be most comfortable back to the basket. He moves so well though that eventually I see him being extremely effective in the screen and roll. This is how we used Andrew and Boris to unclog the middle. The 5 defender has to hedge the screener if you're scared of the shooter and now the middle is clear for back side cutter or slip screen. So far we've looked a bit awkward in those opportunities. Nate had a nice slip drawing a foul on pass from Kishawn and then on a dribble handoff with Luke in a nice sequence in the 2nd half.
Offensively it really frustrates me that we never have a weak side rebounder. I'm not sure if this is by design but the only player we generally have going after an offensive rebound is our 5. If we play perimeter oriented offense there are opportunities to attack the glass opposite the side of the shooter where boxing out is generally more difficult because the defender is less aware the ball has been shot. If the defense need only be responsible for boxing out the 5 the task of gathering a rebound is made rather easy. It's essentially 5 on 1 unless there is a long rebound.
Has nobody mentioned Luke? Man does he play with a chip on his shoulder and I mean that in the best way. Has the MPG attitude on defense and picked up some frustration fouls, but I kinda liked it. He wants to win, and thinks we should win. |
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mccabemi
Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 5685 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Also, what was said on tv about that crap call on Nate where the Purdue big guy hooked Nate's arm and dragged him down? And then all of a sudden Nate was called for the foul? That baseline ref had Purdue and the points. |
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BDF
Joined: 24 Jan 2012 Posts: 4137
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:25 am Post subject: |
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JAG and Luka ran some great pick and rolls in the first couple of games. I remember being impressed by Luka's hands.
And you are right, Luke is every bit as tough (and smart) as advertised. Regarding the smart, at the end of the Wichita St. game, you can see him repeatedly asking the coaching staff "do you really want me on the box for this foul shot. He knew the only really bad outcome at that point in the game was picking up a foul going for a rebound. They left him there, but when the shot went up, he just quietly backed away. No chance he was making the wrong play there. _________________ This is a post by BDF, not BDL. |
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TOK
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Posts: 1893 Location: Concord, N.C.
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: |
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catnhat wrote: | Our bigs catch the ball at the top of the key, swing it to the other side and screen away. If the other team's big camps under the rim the man our guy screens for will get a bunch of open shots. Our offense works best when the 5 can make a three, but it is not completely dependent on it. How many 3s did Thomas, Boris, and Andrew take in the 2nd half of the '08-'09 season?
Luka will be a 1000 point scorer- maybe 1500. Did you see his back door pass to CC last night? We'll be fine. |
But, those seasons with Thomas, Boris and Andrew featured a certain guard who seems to score a lot in the NBA. Steph was the reason the Cats could play Max and still score.
One thing is certain, without a transcendent talent on the team, the offense works a lot better when all 5 guys on the floor are threats to shoot from outside. |
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quickcat
Joined: 14 Jul 2011 Posts: 1228
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: |
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mccabemi wrote: | Also, what was said on tv about that crap call on Nate where the Purdue big guy hooked Nate's arm and dragged him down? And then all of a sudden Nate was called for the foul? That baseline ref had Purdue and the points. |
There was a commercial timeout right then, and before they broke the color guy watched the replay several times and was 100% certain that when they returned Davidson would have 2 shots and the ball. I don't know if they actually reviewed the play during the TO, but if they did they either need to fire the ref who watched it, or change the rule to match how they're going to call it.
It could have been a momentum play. With the right call it would have been Purdue by as little as 5 or 6 at that point, instead of the 14 that it ended up being after they got the ball and made a 3. I don't think we were ever closer than 14 after that. Maybe we never would have been closer than 5 or 6 after that, but it would have changed the complexion of the game. |
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stevelee

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Posts: 10005 Location: Davidson
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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App just came back from a 9-point deficit in the last minute to take Ball State into OT. _________________ Μεγάλη ἡμÎÏα εἶναι ΛÏγξ |
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stevelee

Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Posts: 10005 Location: Davidson
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Ball State had a 9-0 start in OT, and won by 8. _________________ Μεγάλη ἡμÎÏα εἶναι ΛÏγξ |
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rbarney
Joined: 29 Dec 2007 Posts: 4908 Location: Upstate New York
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: Defense |
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I'm obviously not as astute a watcher on offense, but the one thing that impressed me about Purdue is that they never let off the gas. Once we were down, they never let us narrow the margin. When we scored, they came right back with a score of their own. It will be interesting to see how they fare in the Big Ten this year (not to mention the top 25). |
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straycat
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 127
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Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Purdue Post-Game |
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BDF wrote: | MrMac wrote: | bvgerd wrote: | catseye wrote: |
1) When teams jump our passing lanes and extend the defense to the three point line, we make back door cuts and take the easy layups. Why didn't we see that tonight?
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Its seems like weve really struggled with getting the ball to these cutters in recent years when we go against better competition. Theyre able to extend the pressure right up to our shooters knowing we wont drive on them, but for whatever reason we cant seem to make them pay by hitting cutters. I dont know if its because our guards cant make the passes around the defenders or what, but it feels like we havent really done a great job of hitting cutters since our first year in the A10. |
Second basket of the game was Luke hitting a cutter following a defensive overplay by Purdue. After that, I recall a few unsuccessful attempts at hitting the cutter. The passes were tipped or picked off by aggressive defending of the passer. Their aggressiveness on D was suffocating. |
When our 5 isn’t a threat to shoot the 3, their big man clogs the lane.
Most of our 5s get better at shooting the three over their career, but Luka has a long way to go. |
What I don't understand is how our 5s get better shooting the three when they don't take hardly any 3 point shots. Another non-big is allowed to take 12 shots and it is just too bad if they made 2 of the 12, for example....but a big usually taking 0 or 1 at most three point shots a game? How does he get better if he doesn't get in-game experience of taking 3 point shots? Why not: I want you to shoot at least 3 -4 times? You need to learn (get confidence) to make 3s during a game.
In short, how do you get better if you don't try to make a 3 at least 2-3 times a game?
Toss in the pressure of? This is my big moment to take my 1 3 point attempt and hope to GAWD my 3 point shot stat for the night is 1-1.
I dunno. Never played basketball college and never coached. |
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BDF
Joined: 24 Jan 2012 Posts: 4137
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Purdue Post-Game |
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straycat wrote: | BDF wrote: | MrMac wrote: | bvgerd wrote: | catseye wrote: |
1) When teams jump our passing lanes and extend the defense to the three point line, we make back door cuts and take the easy layups. Why didn't we see that tonight?
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Its seems like weve really struggled with getting the ball to these cutters in recent years when we go against better competition. Theyre able to extend the pressure right up to our shooters knowing we wont drive on them, but for whatever reason we cant seem to make them pay by hitting cutters. I dont know if its because our guards cant make the passes around the defenders or what, but it feels like we havent really done a great job of hitting cutters since our first year in the A10. |
Second basket of the game was Luke hitting a cutter following a defensive overplay by Purdue. After that, I recall a few unsuccessful attempts at hitting the cutter. The passes were tipped or picked off by aggressive defending of the passer. Their aggressiveness on D was suffocating. |
When our 5 isn’t a threat to shoot the 3, their big man clogs the lane.
Most of our 5s get better at shooting the three over their career, but Luka has a long way to go. |
What I don't understand is how our 5s get better shooting the three when they don't take hardly any 3 point shots. Another non-big is allowed to take 12 shots and it is just too bad if they made 2 of the 12, for example....but a big usually taking 0 or 1 at most three point shots a game? How does he get better if he doesn't get in-game experience of taking 3 point shots? Why not: I want you to shoot at least 3 -4 times? You need to learn (get confidence) to make 3s during a game.
In short, how do you get better if you don't try to make a 3 at least 2-3 times a game?
Toss in the pressure of? This is my big moment to take my 1 3 point attempt and hope to GAWD my 3 point shot stat for the night is 1-1.
I dunno. Never played basketball college and never coached. |
In perhaps their only moment of insight during yesterday's game, the commentators said our coaching staff wants Luka to take a 3 pointer once per half. That would get him the two shots per game. _________________ This is a post by BDF, not BDL. |
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mccabemi
Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 5685 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:21 am Post subject: |
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There is a substantial cost of a big taking a 3.... which is that your opportunity for an offensive rebound can decline (especially so if you don’t have to guard the big shooting it). |
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catnhat
Joined: 14 May 2007 Posts: 6397 Location: Asheboro, NC
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:32 am Post subject: |
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I think that "one per half" is an effort to get him to shoot at least one per half. If he ever starts taking too many they can revise their instructions, |
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wildforthecats
Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 18388 Location: Matthews NC
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Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:53 am Post subject: |
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We are only scratching the surface of what many of our guys are capable of doing. |
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