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stevelee



Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 10005
Location: Davidson

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I briefly acquired the nickname Clark Chang the summer I spent at UNC. Somebody said I looked more like a Chang than a Lee in response to some odd comment. In some time proximity, another student called me "Clark" because he had confused me with my future DU classmate Clark Sugg. So someone put the names together. I had forgotten that until the Ching Lee story. There were at least three future members of my class in the program that summer, but none of us knew that we would wind up in college together at the time.
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JCDC



Joined: 01 Nov 2010
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Location: Eastern Shore, MD

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone else see the irony in "summer I spent at UNC" with the title of the thread?
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stevelee



Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 10005
Location: Davidson

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCDC wrote:
Does anyone else see the irony in "summer I spent at UNC" with the title of the thread?


I was a high school kid enjoying my first real time on my own away from home. It was pretty neat. Chapel Hill was a much more interesting place then. I learned about Fibonacci numbers for the first time and learned about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, basic skills for this fan board.
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Steve Rodgers



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
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Location: Columbus, Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many people I've talked to are hoping there was a confederate general named Brent Musberger.
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TOK



Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1893
Location: Concord, N.C.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Rodgers wrote:
Many people I've talked to are hoping there was a confederate general named Brent Musberger.


That's is really funny!
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MakeIt-TakeIt Cat



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 2562

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Expand their hopes to the names of Union generals. De Blasio has been confronted with demands to close the tomb of Ulysses S. Grant due to his infamous General Order 11. I doubt there are any announcers named "Ulysses", but you never know.

More evidence ...
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i77cat



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 24279
Location: mooresville, nc

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of people are bad. Let's stop naming stuff for any of them. Remove all references to people. No Stonewall. No MLK. No Washington. No Davidson. Hell, I might get rid of my own name. That David dude in the Bible was a murderer.
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stevelee



Joined: 04 Mar 2010
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Location: Davidson

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And my name comes from a guy who is famous for getting stoned.
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dorp



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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Location: Greensboro, NC

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrs. Dorp has a work trip to Columbus planned. I asked her how she could go to a place named for such an awful person. Of course, I wasn't offended by it a month ago.
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Acorn



Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to be there's a pretty important difference between celebrating a historical figure despite their flaws and mistakes and celebrating one because of their flaws and mistakes. Washington is primarily known for things other than slaveholding. Davis's, Lee's, and Jackson's relevance to history is based on their voluntary choices to be leaders in a rebellion fought to preserve slavery.
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Airball50



Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 77
Location: Tralfamador

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acorn wrote:
It seems to be there's a pretty important difference between celebrating a historical figure despite their flaws and mistakes and celebrating one because of their flaws and mistakes. Washington is primarily known for things other than slaveholding. Davis's, Lee's, and Jackson's relevance to history is based on their voluntary choices to be leaders in a rebellion fought to preserve slavery.


+++1
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MakeIt-TakeIt Cat



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acorn wrote:
It seems to be there's a pretty important difference between celebrating a historical figure despite their flaws and mistakes and celebrating one because of their flaws and mistakes. Washington is primarily known for things other than slaveholding. Davis's, Lee's, and Jackson's relevance to history is based on their voluntary choices to be leaders in a rebellion fought to preserve slavery.


Give Mayor De Blasio a call. He and his council members seem to be having trouble seeing the differences. Grant, Columbus, and FDR have been suggested for possible targets as they scour New York for hate symbols. They won't have to look too far. New York was named for the House of York and the Duke of York at the time ... he was one of the biggest slave traders in colonial America through his Royal African Company. Tens of thousands of slaves were branded 'DY' for Duke of York. Oh my! What to do?

A can of worms!

More evidence ...
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Acorn



Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MakeIt-TakeIt Cat wrote:
Acorn wrote:
It seems to be there's a pretty important difference between celebrating a historical figure despite their flaws and mistakes and celebrating one because of their flaws and mistakes. Washington is primarily known for things other than slaveholding. Davis's, Lee's, and Jackson's relevance to history is based on their voluntary choices to be leaders in a rebellion fought to preserve slavery.


Give Mayor De Blasio a call. He and his council members seem to be having trouble seeing the differences. Grant, Columbus, and FDR have been suggested for possible targets as they scour New York for hate symbols. They won't have to look too far. New York was named for the House of York and the Duke of York at the time ... he was one of the biggest slave traders in colonial America through his Royal African Company. Tens of thousands of slaves were branded 'DY' for Duke of York. Oh my! What to do?

A can of worms!

More evidence ...


Definitely a can of worms in cases where the thing the figure is known for is arguably wrong (I guess Columbus for some) or there's a debate about what the figure is known for (blanking on an example). Might I propose the flashcard test: what's the one-line description of a figure? If it's for something widely seen as morally repugnant (e.g., Hitler), then I'm not going to protest the removal of monuments to them.
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rbarney



Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 4908
Location: Upstate New York

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: MONUMENTS Reply with quote

I'm not sure I would describe Lee's decision as one based primarily on considerations of slavery but rather a certain, if unfortunate, loyalty to his native state. It seems to me that the historical argument revolves around why the particular monuments were erected in the first place (rebellion against Reconstruction? An attempt to perpetuate Jim Crow laws?) Being neither a historian nor having more than a passing historical affiliation with the Confederacy, I am not in a position to pass definitive judgement on the respective motivations for establishment or destruction of any particular monument.
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stevelee



Joined: 04 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would imagine that a lot of the Confederate monuments were put in Southern towns because some other town had a monument, so they thought they should, too. Rinse and repeat. Works for other sorts of monuments, too.
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