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Interesting Thread About Financial Aid in the Pioneer League

 
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TexCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 1012
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject: Interesting Thread About Financial Aid in the Pioneer League Reply with quote

http://pflfan.proboards.com/thread/2995/report-offers-full-ride-academics?page=1
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"Gentlemen, all this stuff you've heard about Davidson not wanting to fight - wanting to stay out of the Final Four, is a lot of horse dung. Wildcats traditionally love to fight. All real Wildcats love the sting of battle."-Gen. George S. Patton
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i77cat



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 21714
Location: mooresville, nc

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Competers gonna compete.
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Lurking Dog



Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few thoughts about our "cost containment" league:

An automatic bid out of the PFL is the same as an automatic bid from any other conference (seeding is a separate process).

San Diego football may be getting into the playoffs without athletic aid. If, on the other hand, they're paying for the equivalent of 30 full rides, they're still getting their playoff ticket at a steep discount, compared what a Big Sky school would pay.

The chances of getting caught breaking the rules are slim.

So, if USD football is again offering athletic aid, are they scumbags...
...or evil geniuses?
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bigcat



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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Location: Willow Springs NC

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe a response or just a question. I reviewed the subject thread and I noticed one poster (self-id'd parent of Dayton Flyer) protesting strongly that, based on his son's experience and that of his son's friends, Dayton does not provide any 'unofficial" athletic aid. I did a quick check of the 2016 roster and of the 99 players listed there were 51 redshirt/48 not. Breakdown by class shows 22/34 FR, 13/6 SO; 1/2 JR; and 15/6 SR (redshirt/not). My question is if they aren't getting some kind of athletic aid, who is paying for the extra year of school? another poster reported annual cost at Dayton = $58k, so even if they are graduating in the winter of their 5th year, that's an extra $29k somebody is laying out per player (about $1.5mil total). I guess they could all be getting their masters. Might be interesting to see how well the redshirt/not redshirt correlates to playing time.
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citycat



Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe some of those red shirts are sitting out a spring semester of school and graduating in December. That would be 8 semesters.
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Lurking Dog



Joined: 03 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

citycat wrote:
Maybe some of those red shirts are sitting out a spring semester of school and graduating in December. That would be 8 semesters.


Not sure about sitting out a semester, but December graduations are very common for 5th year players at Drake. Yes, it's expensive.

There's a lot of attrition between the 2nd and 3rd years. Those who aren't moving up the depth chart generally quit football and concentrate on graduating asap.
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SCCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm shocked to learn that there is attrition at other non-scholly private schools.
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FlyerIllini



Joined: 12 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigcat: Just found this site and thought I would attempt to reply to your post. The short answer is that the 5th year player (or his family) pays for that extra semester in the fall of his 5th year. Having said that, many players only take 6 credit hours (the minimum required to be NCAA eligible), and don't have to pay for a full semester. In my case, if my kid decides to play his 5th year, I'll happily pay for it since he will be getting a head start on an MBA.

As Lurking Dog suggested, because of this additional expense players typically only stick around for their 5th year if they are going to start or play meaningful minutes. That's why PFL schools generally have only a handful of 5th years. Dayton happened to have 15 last year, but that was an unusually high number. I believe this year there will only be 4-5.

FWIW, I'm really looking forward to traveling to Davidson when the Flyers play the Cats in October. Seems like a beautiful campus.
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bigcat



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyerillini: that's very interesting, I would not have thought there'd be many folks willing to foot even the reduced bill. The idea of 'redshirting' seems very odd to many here at DC as we are a small college and the culture in general seems to discourage taking more than 4 years to graduate. Not sure how it is now, but in my day, it was quite rare.

My only experience with other league schools is limited to Campbell, which is quite close to my home and where my daughter just graduated from. I have no doubt that there are suing 'merit' scholarships and other means to offer aid to many of the football players; evidenced by the upcoming jump to FCS.

I believe you will enjoy your visit to DC; it is very lovely!
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Waitress



Joined: 01 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigcat wrote:
flyerillini: that's very interesting, I would not have thought there'd be many folks willing to foot even the reduced bill. The idea of 'redshirting' seems very odd to many here at DC as we are a small college and the culture in general seems to discourage taking more than 4 years to graduate. Not sure how it is now, but in my day, it was quite rare.

I believe you will enjoy your visit to DC; it is very lovely!
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate Former SoCon brethren Elon, Furnan, & Wofford all in the high 70%. GW and Fordham at 75%
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FlyerIllini



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigcat: Just to be clear, the overwhelming majority of FB players do graduate in 4 years (mine absolutely will). Those that chose to play a 5th year take graduate classes toward an MBA or other advanced degree for that one semester.

I just skimmed DC's roster. I didn't realize that you guys don't really have any 5th years. I understand it from a cultural or cost perspective, but it really puts your team at a competitive disadvantage. Since the guys that tend to stay for a 5th year likely are starters/major contributors, they are both very good players and typically great leaders. Not sure why your program wouldn't RS freshmen that aren't going to play any way. At least that way, they have the option of staying for a 5th year.

In any event, if anyone has any recommendations for the trip to DC (ie, restaurants, "can't miss" sights, etc.), let me know. Thanks in advance.
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Dr. Bliss



Joined: 05 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyerIllini wrote:
bigcat: Just to be clear, the overwhelming majority of FB players do graduate in 4 years (mine absolutely will). Those that chose to play a 5th year take graduate classes toward an MBA or other advanced degree for that one semester.

I just skimmed DC's roster. I didn't realize that you guys don't really have any 5th years. I understand it from a cultural or cost perspective, but it really puts your team at a competitive disadvantage. Since the guys that tend to stay for a 5th year likely are starters/major contributors, they are both very good players and typically great leaders. Not sure why your program wouldn't RS freshmen that aren't going to play any way. At least that way, they have the option of staying for a 5th year.

In any event, if anyone has any recommendations for the trip to DC (ie, restaurants, "can't miss" sights, etc.), let me know. Thanks in advance.


Davidson doesn't offer post-graduate degrees, so no post-grad courses.
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bigcat



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyerIllini wrote:


I just skimmed DC's roster. I didn't realize that you guys don't really have any 5th years. I understand it from a cultural or cost perspective, but it really puts your team at a competitive disadvantage. Since the guys that tend to stay for a 5th year likely are starters/major contributors, they are both very good players and typically great leaders. Not sure why your program wouldn't RS freshmen that aren't going to play any way. At least that way, they have the option of staying for a 5th year.


that's why I may have come across as sort of sensitive to the subject; many of the other schools take more advantage of the practice so it is really tough.

Quote:
In any event, if anyone has any recommendations for the trip to DC (ie, restaurants, "can't miss" sights, etc.), let me know. Thanks in advance.


Never been there myself but Kindred is highly rated: http://kindreddavidson.com/

I have sampled the fare at the local taphouse, The Brickhouse, and they do have tasty frosty libations.

Lake Norman is lovely and you'll be just a short drive (1hr +) to the mountains, which are wonderful in October. If you're a NASCAR fan the museum is down the road in Charlotte.

I just checked the my calendar and the Dayton game is one I've circled to attend this year, o hope we have great weather and a good game!
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