No limit on stupid

[kevin mcmahon]

As a friend of mine said, "Trump gets in trouble when he brainstorms in public".

[quickcat]

Trump's suggestion about introducing UV light into the body was a very good one. UV treatments for cancer by brochoscopy are alreaddy being done. And UV treatment effects into the body by extracororeal photopheresis have been done for more than 30 years. Doctors on this site will have at least heard about these treatments. I'm surprised doctors at the briefing didn't mention these.

I would suggest that if you are spending time trying to justify certifiably dumb things that come out of DTs mouth you need to either get a new hobby or quit your job because you're going to need more time.

[raptorcat]

Most respiratory viruses, including coronavirus, do not circulate in the blood, so extracorporeal photopheresis, which is used to treat certain rare leukemias, won't touch it.

I know so little about this topic thread that I am almost Trumpian in my ignorance, but doctors at Mt. Sinai and elsewhere are finding young-to-middle aged Covid-19 patients, often with mild or no symptoms, who are suffering massive strokes. An interventional neurologist who was in the midst of a procedure removing a clot from a young patient's brain, saw other clots spontaneously forming nearby, in real-time. In addition to being extremely frightening, does this not mean that the virus has some blood-borne characteristics?

[Dr. Bliss]

Most respiratory viruses, including coronavirus, do not circulate in the blood, so extracorporeal photopheresis, which is used to treat certain rare leukemias, won't touch it.

I know so little about this topic thread that I am almost Trumpian in my ignorance, but doctors at Mt. Sinai and elsewhere are finding young-to-middle aged Covid-19 patients, often with mild or no symptoms, who are suffering massive strokes. An interventional neurologist who was in the midst of a procedure removing a clot from a young patient's brain, saw other clots spontaneously forming nearby, in real-time. In addition to being extremely frightening, does this not mean that the virus has some blood-borne characteristics?

Scary. Maybe some kind of out-of-control immune system response? This coronavirus is a nasty bug for sure.

[Cat Forever]

Most respiratory viruses, including coronavirus, do not circulate in the blood, so extracorporeal photopheresis, which is used to treat certain rare leukemias, won't touch it. Neither would simple phototherapy like we use to treat hyperbilirubinemia in babies. Targeted UV treatment of certain lung cancers works precisely because it can be targeted. There is no way to treat the entirety of both lungs, as well as the nose, throat, and sinuses, with UV light to kill viruses. I'm just a general pediatrician, but I could have told him that.

There is definitely viremia in patients with Covid 19. You might want to double check that fact. The application of photopheresis or UV blood irradiation is at least worth a question. A brochoscope can place a UV light source into the center of the chest and the tip can be directed into all lung segments. The light beam doesn't have to be targeted as is done for tumor phototherapy. I don't know what dose of UV light normal lung tissues can sustain. It's a question that experts in bronchoscopic phototherapy should be asked. There may be no vaccine for Covid 19 for years, or possibly ever, so we need to look for any workable treatments.

[Cat Forever]

I would suggest that if you are spending time trying to justify certifiably dumb things that come out of DTs mouth you need to either get a new hobby or quit your job because you're going to need more time.

It took no extra time. I had come across the info about Covid 19 prior to Trump's question. Trump is easy to mock. He enjoys it I think. He's fully capable of fighting back to defend himself so I feel no need to justify anything he says.

[mccabemi]

Back to your quarantined corners everyone.

[DC69Wildcat]

I know so little about this topic thread that I am almost Trumpian in my ignorance, but doctors at Mt. Sinai and elsewhere are finding young-to-middle aged Covid-19 patients, often with mild or no symptoms, who are suffering massive strokes. An interventional neurologist who was in the midst of a procedure removing a clot from a young patient's brain, saw other clots spontaneously forming nearby, in real-time. In addition to being extremely frightening, does this not mean that the virus has some blood-borne characteristics?

I read that article, and it's pretty scary. To make matters worse, it appears that the administration of prophylactic anticoagulants seems to make the clotting phenomenon more likely, which is the opposite of what you would expect and completely inexplicable. I suspect Dr. Bliss is likely correct that some sort of aberrant immune reaction is responsible, but nobody knows.

[kevin mcmahon]

Disseminated intravascular coagulopathy (DIC) is often a component of end stage sepsis and that might be what is being described here and is almost always a point of no return.

[DC69Wildcat]

Most respiratory viruses, including coronavirus, do not circulate in the blood, so extracorporeal photopheresis, which is used to treat certain rare leukemias, won't touch it. Neither would simple phototherapy like we use to treat hyperbilirubinemia in babies. Targeted UV treatment of certain lung cancers works precisely because it can be targeted. There is no way to treat the entirety of both lungs, as well as the nose, throat, and sinuses, with UV light to kill viruses. I'm just a general pediatrician, but I could have told him that.

There is definitely viremia in patients with Covid 19. You might want to double check that fact.

One of the things I like about this board is that if you post something that is erroneous you will get caught. I did, and I did. Viremia does indeed occur with the coronaviris-2019. However, after an hour of searching medical literature last night, I stand behind the rest of my comment. Zapping even viremic blood with UV light has no effect on the billions of virus particles inhabiting the cells in the lungs, and although some people die from stroke or heart attack without significant lung involvement, pneumonia and its consequences of hypoxemia, sepsis, shock, and multiple organ failure are the cause of death in the vast majority of patients.

[Cat Forever]

We have more questions than answers regarding Covid 19.

Our medical schools in large cities have been struggling to treat Covid 19 basing their protocols on WHO and CDC recommendations with limited success leading to emotional requests for more ventilators as the disease progresses. Meanwhile the professors at Eastern Virginia Medical School have arrived at a different approach which may to be much better:

https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/ ... otocol.pdf

FTA:

The systematic failure of critical care systems to adopt corticosteroid therapy resulted from the
published recommendations against corticosteroids use by the World Health Organization (WHO), the
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and the American Thoracic Society (ATS) amongst
others.

Scroll down several sections to the one labeled 'Scientific Rational for Treatment Protocol' which contains the probable answers to several questions asked in this thread. Note the underlying pathologic process is a " hyperinflammatory cytokine storm ... a dysregulated immune system whose cells infiltrate and damage multiple organs, namely the lungs, kidneys, and heart. It is now widely accepted that SARS-CoV-2 (Covid 19) causes aberrant T lymphocyte activation resulting in a cytokine storm.”

BTW, T cells (lymphocytes) are the target cells of extracorporeal photopheresis for lymphoma treatment ...

[Acorn]

So just so I’m clear on where we are...

Donald said “x.”

Many people (including posters on this board) said “it’s ridiculous that Donald said ‘x.’”

Other people (including some on this board) said “actually it’s very smart that Donald said x.”

Then Donald said “I was being very sarcastic when I said ‘x.’”

[Cat Forever]

So just so I’m clear on where we are...

Donald said “x.”

Many people (including posters on this board) said “it’s ridiculous that Donald said ‘x.’”

Other people (including some on this board) said “actually it’s very smart that Donald said x.”

Then Donald said “I was being very sarcastic when I said ‘x.’”

I don't think you are clear yet. In the briefing POTUS said x (light), y (disinfectant), and y clarified. This is a pretty fair rendering in context:

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020 ... nfectant-/

[Acorn]

So UV was a good idea? Disinfectant was misstated and/or misunderstood as an internal treatment?

That just leaves one mystery: where is the sarcasm that he himself said he engaged in?

https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/stat ... 0676898818

Birx didn’t seem to recognize the sarcasm either.

https://mobile.twitter.com/daniel_lewis ... 6699969537

[slowcat95]

Welcome back, old friend.