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BDF
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 4137
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 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:50 am Post subject: US News and World Report likes your college |
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Davidson ranked 10th among National Liberal Arts Colleges. I am questioning the data that this is based on, however, since they report this:
Average 6-year graduation rate
93%
6-year graduation rate of students who received a Pell Grant
89%
6-year graduation rate of students who did not receive a Pell Grant
91%
I'm just a poli sci major, but I don't think the average of the whole can be greater than the average of the subsets.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/davidson-college-2918
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Joneohcat83
Joined: 27 Feb 2012
Posts: 275
Location: Cooperstown, NY
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Math Thread!
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collegecoach8502
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3259
Location: Davidson, NC
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:00 am Post subject: Re: US News and World Report likes your college |
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| BDF wrote: | Davidson ranked 10th among National Liberal Arts Colleges. I am questioning the data that this is based on, however, since they report this:
Average 6-year graduation rate
93%
6-year graduation rate of students who received a Pell Grant
89%
6-year graduation rate of students who did not receive a Pell Grant
91%
I'm just a poli sci major, but I don't think the average of the whole can be greater than the average of the subsets.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/davidson-college-2918 |
Fake news!
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stevelee
Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 10005
Location: Davidson
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Of course the average of the whole can be higher than the average of one or more subsets.
I’d suggest that the average graduation rate of those who dropped out would be somewhat lower than the average for the whole; similarly for those who transferred to other institutions. The graduation rates for one-year exchange students would be low. I could go on and on. Likewise one can select groups that would have higher rates, and go on and on and on.
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ChantillyCat
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 3969
Location: Chantilly, VA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: Re: US News and World Report likes your college |
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| BDF wrote: | | I'm just a poli sci major, but I don't think the average of the whole can be greater than the average of the subsets. |
To complete the devolution of this into a math thread, there's this thing called Simpson's Paradox wherein "averages don't combine" the way one might assume they would.
Real-life example from Wikipedia... David Justice had better batting averages than Derek Jeter in both 1995 and 1996. However, Derek Jeter had a better combined batting average over those two seasons.
| Code: | 1995 1996 Combined
==== ==== ========
Derek Jeter 12/48 .250 183/582 .314 195/630 .310
David Justice 104/411 .253 45/140 .321 149/551 .270 |
I don't think this Pell Grant thing is an example of that, however. It think it's more likely a typo, or they're comparing apples and oranges.
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MrMac
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 8254
Location: Greenwood, SC
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: US News and World Report likes your college |
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| ChantillyCat wrote: | | BDF wrote: | | I'm just a poli sci major, but I don't think the average of the whole can be greater than the average of the subsets. |
To complete the devolution of this into a math thread, there's this thing called Simpson's Paradox wherein "averages don't combine" the way one might assume they would.
Real-life example from Wikipedia... David Justice had better batting averages than Derek Jeter in both 1995 and 1996. However, Derek Jeter had a better combined batting average over those two seasons.
| Code: | 1995 1996 Combined
==== ==== ========
Derek Jeter 12/48 .250 183/582 .314 195/630 .310
David Justice 104/411 .253 45/140 .321 149/551 .270 |
I don't think this Pell Grant thing is an example of that, however. It think it's more likely a typo, or they're comparing apples and oranges. |
Not a "Math Guy" but I can see from your example how the low numbers of AB's for each, in one of those years, skews the picture somewhat. Looks like economics, something else about which I am not well-versed. 😠|
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BDF
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 4137
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| stevelee wrote: | Of course the average of the whole can be higher than the average of one or more subsets.
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Of course.
But I don't think the average of the whole can be greater than ALL of the subsets.
Is there a third category of students in addition to those who did receive Pell Grants and those who did not receive Pell Grants?
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catborn'bred
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 745
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| The pell grant numbers may be based only on students who are potentially eligible to receive a pell grant, i.e., U.S. Citizens or those with a green card. Therefore, if the reported percentages do not include international students then this may account for the question being raised. International students tend to have higher graduation rate percentages because it is more challenging for them to transfer and a bigger risk for them to simply drop out. |
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BDF
Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 4137
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| catborn'bred wrote: | | The pell grant numbers may be based only on students who are potentially eligible to receive a pell grant, i.e., U.S. Citizens or those with a green card. Therefore, if the reported percentages do not include international students then this may account for the question being raised. International students tend to have higher graduation rate percentages because it is more challenging for them to transfer and a bigger risk for them to simply drop out. |
That makes sense. There is a third subset.
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dorp
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 9388
Location: Greensboro, NC
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Doesn't Davidson lower the denominator for alumni giving percentage if an alum simply says they no longer want to be contacted? Easy way to boost the percentage. |
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stevelee
Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 10005
Location: Davidson
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| dorp wrote: | | Doesn't Davidson lower the denominator for alumni giving percentage if an alum simply says they no longer want to be contacted? Easy way to boost the percentage. |
Is that not common practice, or does anybody here know?
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catborn'bred
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 745
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| I am not sure if it is common practice. I have heard that some colleges do this. I am unaware whether Davidson does it. Would surprise me if it did. The alumni giving rate is based only on alumni who earned a degree. |
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jamesdhogan
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 1125
Location: Statesville, NC
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| dorp wrote: | | Doesn't Davidson lower the denominator for alumni giving percentage if an alum simply says they no longer want to be contacted? Easy way to boost the percentage. |
I can't comment about current practices, but the denominator is acceptably defined as viable, solicitable alumni. If you're not viable (read: dead), or you've explicitly said solicitations from the college are unwelcome (read: Do Not Call), then it's a common occurrence to drop you from the denominator.
There are other liberties to be taken with denominators that Davidson opts not to take. And no matter what, the sheer numbers of alumni donors in each year's ranks are something to be enormously proud of.
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stevelee
Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 10005
Location: Davidson
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Dead alumni contribute rather well, too.
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mccabemi
Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 5685
Location: Charleston, SC
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jamesdhogan wrote: | | dorp wrote: | | Doesn't Davidson lower the denominator for alumni giving percentage if an alum simply says they no longer want to be contacted? Easy way to boost the percentage. |
I can't comment about current practices, but the denominator is acceptably defined as viable, solicitable alumni. If you're not viable (read: dead), or you've explicitly said solicitations from the college are unwelcome (read: Do Not Call), then it's a common occurrence to drop you from the denominator.
There are other liberties to be taken with denominators that Davidson opts not to take. And no matter what, the sheer numbers of alumni donors in each year's ranks are something to be enormously proud of. |
Johns Hopkins used to call me every year. Every year, I would tell them I would never give. Over time, I began to go on polite 30 second rants about how they were wasting their time and that they should not contact me. After the fifth year of ranting, one of the college students asked, “would you like to be placed on the do not call list?†To which I responded, “yes.â€
I guess I didn’t use the magic words. |
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